How do I make cheap DV look more like expensive film?

[4score]

Ok....I'm a very new film maker and need some basic explaining. Ok,I know that when I go to the movie theater and watch a motion picture, they use film. 35mm I think. So now....with all this talk about digital technology, to make a picture look professional like they do at the theaters, one must use film, not DV correct? Can you obtain that professional, dramatic look that you see on a big screen with a DV camcorder and good editing programs?

I have a Sony dcr-trv25 which I bought for about $1,000. Anything that I film looks like a cheap home video, and doesnt have that "professional look" that I envisioned....you know what I mean. Can someone film with a DV camera and somehow transfer it to film to get that look? I dont know if I'm making any sense at all....

I know I didn't spend a lot of money on my camera (in the big scheme of things), but it was a lot for a highschool student. I'm trying to plan my Senior Project which will be possibly shooting my own short. Now is where I need some help and advice. I can't bare the thought of going through all the work of getting actors, writing a script, finding a location, and all other details, and then after I finish filming, it has the same feel as when I filmed my home video on Christmas Day. I want it to look like a "movie" more or less. Does it have something to do with frames per second....to give it the smoothe, big screen look? Is it the whole 1 chip 2 chip 3 chip thing? Anyways...I'm a bit baffled, and lost...maybe someone out there can clear things up for me.. thanks alot,

Chris ***

[Phaethon]

A few tips. If you have the option of using a 16:9 aspect ratio on your camera, use it. In case you don't know, 16:9 is widescreen. It sounds like you have a decent camcorder so, I'd say you have true 16:9, not just the bars that cut off the top and bottom of the screen. Also, lighting helps more than you can imagine. If you have bad lighting nobody, and I mean NOBODY is going to take your picture seriously. Make sure your picture isn't over-exposed, but at the same time make sure things aren't too dark where they aren't supposed to be. If your camera's got a flip-out screen use it to check your lighting as the eye-piece can be decieving. Editing is important too. If you're going to edit in camera don't do a half @$$ job. If you've got software, great. You can do anything. Good sound is important too. Dammit. Everything is important. Yeah. Just pay attention to everything. I know alot of Sony camcorders have a mode called "Slow Shutter" if your camera has this use it on the first setting, it will give it a "framey" feel. I hope I helped. Good luck with your project.

[tim.callaghan]

Its gonna be hard work, and a lot of testing.

Heed the warning above, video is a lot less forgiving than film, a couple of stops one way or the other you are under/over exposed. Film gives a better latitude, so its easier to expose properly.

To further complicate things, to get the depth of field of film, you're gonna need to have the lens more open that you'd probably like, so the use of ND filters are going to allow you to open up, but then you're gonna need more light to compensate for the ND filters, but at least you'll have more DOF. Different lighting conditions will require different setups.

Also, film captures typically 24 frames per second, where as video captures 50 fields/sec in PAL land and roughly 60 fields/sec in NTSC. This is one of the reasons video looks like video, and looks like real life, loosing that dramatic feel. So to get the film feel it would be of benefit to capture frames rather than fields. This can be done using a progressive scan camera, where one frame is caught and distributed to 2 fields. This can be done with high end Canon Cameras XM1 XM2 XL1. Although not true progressive scan, it does the job well enough.

Film has a shutter speed typically of 1/50sec, this means when panning quickly or fast movement, images have what is called motion blur. If your camera is set up with a high shutter speed, the video won't have the characteristics of film, so get the shutter speed manually set to 1/50 or similar, this will give you a nice motion blur. The only problem with this again though,is video doesn't have a choice of film stock, we can only up the gain which introduces nasty noise, which is way more less desirable than film grain. So you're gonna need more light, shooting at 1/50, again lighting is key. If you're gonna pump more light at your subject, 1 make sure you don't fry them and 2 make sure it is evenly lit, as you'll lose detail everywhere else.

So then down to the final bits. DV just doesn't have the contrast or color saturation as film (dependant on stock), so the use of filters is a good idea (including the ND mentioned before). A black pro mist will give your images a nice smooth filmish looking kind of look, soften edges slightly and hiding a few blemishes. Warmup filters can look nice too, dependant on the look you are after, but I find them excellent for more saturation. Filters to increase contrast are also available, and also can be excellent. Guess what? Using all these filters is introducing more glass infront of the CCD, therefore you're gonna need more light!!!

So with all these elements to improve your image, with a lot of variables, its going to take you a lot of testing to get it right - you will do, but it'll take time.

Don't rely on post production techniques, cos unless you start spending mega buck it'll look **** , and then it won't be great.

You cannot truly compensate in post for what you can capture by the camera using techinique, experience, filters and lighting - fullstop!

Seems daunting eh? A simpler way to get the film look, is shoot on film. If you're going to master on video anyway, using a small gauage film like super 8, can be transferred well to video. Super8 cameras are cheap, but film is more expensive than tapes, but hey, it's film, and it still costs relatively cheap in comparison to 16mm and 35mm. K40 is a nice, if slow stock, but is forgiving even though being reversal.

Options options options

Good luck kiddah!

Tim

[Mods]

STOP!

I've got a much easier way.

Get a graphics card with TV out.

Get an S-Video to SCART cable. Connect it up and hey presto.

There. It looks much more like film. And i'm not joking.

[img]smile.gif[/img]
m0ds

[ickle_jim]

id love to have a $1,000 DV camera so id hardly call it cheap...

as for not making it look sh1t... maybe its just you? and i dont mean that in a bad way, but... well yeah, maybe its just you [img]tongue.gif[/img]

im hoping you use a tripod and film in decent light, and dont zoom in and out all the time, and basic stuff like that

[4score]

Another question....most feature films use 35mm....what about tv shows? What about like NYPD Blue or The Shield (The Shield rocks if you havn't seen it!), what do they use? Then....what about those shows v. a soap opera? I want my stuff to look less like a soap opera and more like even a tv show.

I've read a few different opinions....most say lighting is key...I've also heard about filters. Can anyone speak from experience on specific filters that have made any kind of real difference?

Chris

[4score]

Tim,

Thanks so much for your information. I will look in to filters and lighting. I appretiate the time you took to write such a long, thought out explanation. Your great!

Chris

[vt220]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Another question....most feature films use 35mm....what about tv shows? </font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

depends on the show. alot of them shoot 35. "the sopranos" shoots around 100,000 feet per episode (!!!) and then gets cut on HD.

alot of sitcoms that don't do much location stuff usually shoot video.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#DDDDDD"><font size=2 face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've read a few different opinions....most say lighting is key...I've also heard about filters. Can anyone speak from experience on specific filters that have made any kind of real difference?
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

try the tiffen 1/4 black promist. i've used it alot and it looks great. the denser promists looked funky to me, but the 1/4 looks good.

but bad lighting will always look poopy, no matter what the filter.

[ickle_jim]

you have got a good camera there, i would just leave everything on the autopilot, instead of manual...
if you are filming outside id say the most important thing is not being backlit!

[tim.callaghan]

Personally, I wouldn't recommend auto mode for shooting, especially dramatic. Constant changing shutter speeds and aperture looks amatuerish. Use the auto mode to examine the scene to see what it thinks, then put it into manual and set it. Use the viewfinder, not the LCD to make minor adjustment, as you may want to go up or down a stop.

So to make it look better, get a tripod, shoot early or before dusk, get a UV filter on the front (1 to protect the lens, and 2 to for better images in outdoor light). If there is lots of light the XM1 has a built in ND filter, so use it, especially if you want to open up a bit more and get a bit more depth of field.

Do you have an external mic rather than the onboard? The onboard mic is pathetic, and you'll be almost certainly disappointed with the sound. Audio technica do a kit on the cheapish side thats good value for money. Sennheiser are the best, but expensive.

Also, if your'e mate doesn't mind slap a bit of powder or light foundation on him (make sure its even), he'll thankyou when he sees the footage.

Remember that 20x zoom too, use it for some shots, but tripod, tripod, tripod, get the best one you can afford/hire.

Good luck